
-------- TML Message #982 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 982
Subject: Newsgroup...
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 90 17:04:31 PST
From: richardt@legato.COM


One recurring theme I see in the argument over newsgroup or mailing
list is the belief that you must decide between them.  In fact, the
newsgroup-to-mailing-list gateway software is readily available and
reasonably reliable.  We CAN have our cake and eat it to...

RichardT
A voice in the wilderness...

All opinions and material above is the responsibility of the originator.
Submissions: traveller@dadla.wr.tek.com, or uunet!dadla.wr.tek.com!traveller
Administrator: traveller-request@dadla.wr.tek.com (James Perkins)
The TML is made possible by facilities provided by Tektronix, Inc.

-------- TML Message #983 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 983
From: ("45252-Peter L. Berghold") wrgate.wr.tek.com!uunet.uu.net!allegra!violin!plb@tektronix.TEK.COM
Subject: NewsGroup
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 90 11:01:37 EST


Operating System: HP-UX A.B7.00 U
Organization: AT&T-BL, Red Hill System Administration Group (HRSAG)
Location: HR 1F138
Phone: (201) 615-4419
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.2 PL10]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAArrrrrrrggggghhhhhhhh!

No newsgroup conversion!    I like things just the way they are!   
Besides!   If I change assignments (I'm a consultant) there is more chance
that I would have access to  EMAIL than I would NetNews!  (Yes, I'm selfish)

I like the TML just the way it is.


Let's ask Bill what he thinks of converting to a newsgroup:



           _   /|
           \`o_O'
             ( )
              U
          Aachk!
              Phft!

There ya' have it! :-}

- -- 
/* - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -  */
/*		Peter L. Berghold					*/
/*		System Administrator					*/
/*		AT&T Red Hill Systems Administration Group		*/
/*		1F138	+1 (201) 615-4419				*/
/*		EMAIL (UUCP):	{uunet!allegra|att}!violin!plb		*/
/* - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -  */


All opinions and material above is the responsibility of the originator.
Submissions: traveller@dadla.wr.tek.com, or uunet!dadla.wr.tek.com!traveller
Administrator: traveller-request@dadla.wr.tek.com (James Perkins)
The TML is made possible by facilities provided by Tektronix, Inc.

-------- TML Message #984 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 984
Subject: Re: GEnie files 
Date: Sat, 10 Feb 90 23:14:25 PST
From: (Leonard Erickson) leonard@tessi.UUCP


Uh, James?

Bad news... GEnie, like CIS is *controlled acces*. You have to sign up.
And they have to verify you. This means that the usenet analogy breaks
down. You do *not* lose your copyright by posting to CIS or GEnie, and
they can get downright nasty about it.

Several years ago CIS was cracking down on people who were downloading
all the "good" files from one of a forums data libraries and putting
them on their BBS's. Since I had a copyright notice on a program of
mine that was copied CIS's lawyers asked me if I'd like them to sue
the BBS operator *FOR ME*! They were going after him on their own anyway.

Anybody planning on downloading thoise files and posting them to the
list had better read the fine print of their service agreement. I lay 
odds that itr *specifically* states that what we want to do is not
permiited. If it doesn't say so there, the online system rules *will*
say so. And you are obligated to honor the agreement and follow the 
rules by the LEGAL CONTRACT you have entered into with them.

James, unless we get permission from GEnie or from the authors/posters
of those files, I'd advise you to not post them until you have a talk
with Tek's legal department. It is concievable that they could sue
Tek since it supports the list...

Sorry to be a wet blanket. I'd *love* to have those files. But not if it
means that we lose the list, or somebody gets nailed to the wall by Genie.

All opinions and material above is the responsibility of the originator.
Submissions: traveller@dadla.wr.tek.com, or uunet!dadla.wr.tek.com!traveller
Administrator: traveller-request@dadla.wr.tek.com (James Perkins)
The TML is made possible by facilities provided by Tektronix, Inc.

-------- TML Message #985 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 985
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 90 13:04 EST
From: RWMIRA01%ULKYVX.BITNET@cornellc.cit.cornell.edu
Subject: Re: Jill-il-jagd


(OK, so I didn't get the subject line right, blame our mailer since I cant just
reply!!!!)

JTAS#22, PG 40      Contact:  The Hlanssai

  "The Hlannssai evloved on Vrirhlanz, in the Varger Extents (B-657721-7), a
planet not totally unlike Terra."

They seem like a pretty interesting race.  It says that they are not just
limited to that system and that they can be encounted in both the spinward and
coreward areas of the Imperium.  They have wanderlust which drives them to
adventure.

FYI
Rob
- --
Rob Miracle              | Bitnet   : RWMIRA01@ULKYVX    CIS: 74216,3134
Programmer/Analyst-II    | INTERNET : rwmira01%ulkyvx.bitnet@cunyvm.cuny.edu
University of Louisville | UUCP     : ...psuvax1!ulkyvx.bitnet!rwmira01


All opinions and material above is the responsibility of the originator.
Submissions: traveller@dadla.wr.tek.com, or uunet!dadla.wr.tek.com!traveller
Administrator: traveller-request@dadla.wr.tek.com (James Perkins)
The TML is made possible by facilities provided by Tektronix, Inc.

-------- TML Message #986 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 986
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 90 17:06:14 -0500
From: (wilson m liaw) macgyver@cis.ohio-state.edu
Subject: Files



	The files on GEnie are copyright by the different authors/uploaders. 
That's why I didn't post the files on the list. Before anyone post the
files onto the list, you probably should ask the author/uploader first.

				Mac

All opinions and material above is the responsibility of the originator.
Submissions: traveller@dadla.wr.tek.com, or uunet!dadla.wr.tek.com!traveller
Administrator: traveller-request@dadla.wr.tek.com (James Perkins)
The TML is made possible by facilities provided by Tektronix, Inc.

-------- TML Message #987 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 987
From: ("Brent L. Woods") woodsb@gn.ecn.purdue.edu
Subject: Re: GEnie files 
Date: Sun, 11 Feb 90 19:40:43 EST


 In message: <9002110714.AA08377@bucket.UUCP> you write:
 >
 >Uh, James?
 >
 >Bad news... GEnie, like CIS is *controlled acces*. You have to sign up.
 >And they have to verify you. This means that the usenet analogy breaks
 >down. You do *not* lose your copyright by posting to CIS or GEnie, and
 >they can get downright nasty about it.

     Um...  'Fraid you do, under relatively new law (this comes from a
lawyer [not me]).  Among other things, compilation copyrights fall down
flat when it comes to electronic media.  I'm given to understand that
compilation copyright is one of the big concepts that the information
services use.

 >Anybody planning on downloading thoise files and posting them to the
 >list had better read the fine print of their service agreement. I lay 
 >odds that itr *specifically* states that what we want to do is not
 >permiited. If it doesn't say so there, the online system rules *will*
 >say so. And you are obligated to honor the agreement and follow the 
 >rules by the LEGAL CONTRACT you have entered into with them.

     However, the new copyright laws don't really apply to contractual
obligations between service provider and client.  I have to admit that
I didn't even think of that.  Unfortunately, I've never seen the text
of any of the contracts that the information services use (I *do* speak
legalese--you can't beat a system you don't understand).  Anybody know
what these contracts say?

     Yeah, we should be careful...wouldn't want to get the Little Blue
Oscilloscope Company in trouble...


- --
     Brent

INTERNET:  woodsb@gn.ecn.purdue.edu  /  woodsb@attctc.dallas.tx.us
USENET:  pur-ee!gn.ecn.purdue.edu!woodsb
FIDONET:  Brent.Woods@p303.f40.n201.z1.fidonet.org  (from Internet)  or
          Brent Woods@1:201/40.303  (from FidoNet)
USNAIL:  320 Brown St., #406  /  W. Laf., IN  47906
PHONE:  +1 (317) 743-8421 (voice)


All opinions and material above is the responsibility of the originator.
Submissions: traveller@dadla.wr.tek.com, or uunet!dadla.wr.tek.com!traveller
Administrator: traveller-request@dadla.wr.tek.com (James Perkins)
The TML is made possible by facilities provided by Tektronix, Inc.

-------- TML Message #988 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 988
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 90 08:16 EST
From: RWMIRA01%ULKYVX.BITNET@cornellc.cit.cornell.edu
Subject: Re: GEnie files


> >Bad news... GEnie, like CIS is *controlled acces*. You have to sign up.
>
> >Anybody planning on downloading thoise files and posting them to the
> >list had better read the fine print of their service agreement. I lay
> >odds that itr *specifically* states that what we want to do is not
> >permiited.
>
>     However, the new copyright laws don't really apply to contractual
>obligations between service provider and client.  I have to admit that
>I didn't even think of that.  Unfortunately, I've never seen the text
>of any of the contracts that the information services use (I *do* speak
>legalese--you can't beat a system you don't understand).  Anybody know
>what these contracts say?

I will upload the contract and mail it to anyone who wants to see it.  It
doesn't look good.  I don't do legalese, but it was pretty clear, downloads are
not copyiable, so it looks like a mute point now.  I may send E.Mail to Mark
Miller (our dear author of Traveller) and see what he has to say.  I will also
find a DGP person to ask them also.

Most all of the Sector Data has Copyright(c)s attached to them.  A lot of the
other stuff does not.  Now the argument here is that the Traveller Group is a
Support center for Traveller products.  Much like Borland International is on
CIS as a service to it's customers, Traveller is on GEnie.  Borland uploads bud
fixes and such and makes them available to their customers free.  Microsoft
does the same.  Example, you can download printer drivers for MS-Word or you
can get a diskette from Redmon WA for $BUCKS.  In the MS case, you can't
redistribute it.

Now if GDW & DGP chose GEnie for this purpose, then they may be there to give
support to Traveller people world wide.  Their information may be for any owner
of Traveller and the only people who would get upset would be GE for having 50
people get (how many people are on the list anyway?) the files for the cost of
one download.

Rob
rwmira01@ulkyvx.bitnet or rob@disk.uucp

All opinions and material above is the responsibility of the originator.
Submissions: traveller@dadla.wr.tek.com, or uunet!dadla.wr.tek.com!traveller
Administrator: traveller-request@dadla.wr.tek.com (James Perkins)
The TML is made possible by facilities provided by Tektronix, Inc.

-------- TML Message #989 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 989
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 90 08:49:09 EST
From: (Greg Givler - Product Assurance) givler@cbmvax.commodore.COM
Subject: Re: GEnie files



>     If they had wanted to keep their copyright intact, they shouldn't
>have posted the information via an electronic medium.  By doing that,
>they effectively place it in the public domain.  The principle is that
>there's no possible way to control distribution, so copyright can't be
>maintained.  For example, by posting something to USENET, you lose all
>legal recourse.
>
>     Bottom line?  There's nothing wrong with posting the files.  Besides,
>GDW and Digest Group don't really have anything to worry about from us,
>do they?  We're on *their* side, right?  :-)

Well I tried downloading some stuff on FFW over the weekend and it was 
listed as being a binary file. Now I can't seem to figure out how to 
"un-binary" it. I will try some more stuff this week.

>>distribute this. I mean technically whoever is running this RoundTable on
>>GEnie, wont get any money from my downloading the info, as GEnie let's me
>>do this Free.

>     Really?  Is it that GEnie is suppying the account for free, or is C=
>picking up the tab?  If the latter, then GEnie shouldn't care.

GEnie, picks up the tab. It's nice to know people in high places. :-)

>--
>     Brent

Greg

- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Greg Givler                        | Q-Link: GregGivler
Analyst - Systems Evaluation Group | CompuServe: Greg Givler 76702,647
Commodore Product Assurance        | GEnie: G.Givler
215-431-9100                       | The NET: givler@cbmvax.commodore.com
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Wild Whores couldn't keep me away!" -- George Francisco
"That's Horses, George" -- Matt Sikes -- Alien Nation --  Fox Broadcasting --
===============================================================================


All opinions and material above is the responsibility of the originator.
Submissions: traveller@dadla.wr.tek.com, or uunet!dadla.wr.tek.com!traveller
Administrator: traveller-request@dadla.wr.tek.com (James Perkins)
The TML is made possible by facilities provided by Tektronix, Inc.

-------- TML Message #990 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 990
Subject: Re: Newsgroup mail gateway
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 90 10:15:10 -0500
From: (Arturo Perez x6739) aperez@caribe


> Archive-Message-Number: 982
> Subject: Newsgroup...
> Date: Sat, 10 Feb 90 17:04:31 PST
> From: richardt%legato.com@RELAY.CS.NET
> 
> One recurring theme I see in the argument over newsgroup or mailing
> list is the belief that you must decide between them.  In fact, the
> newsgroup-to-mailing-list gateway software is readily available and
> reasonably reliable.  We CAN have our cake and eat it to...
> 
> RichardT
> A voice in the wilderness...

This is quite true.  In fact, I've written newsgroup to mail 
gateways myself, with duplex mode :-) transmission; i.e. mail
gets posted and articles get mailed.  It is quite easy.  Would
Mr. Perkins be interested in moderating such a beast?


All opinions and material above is the responsibility of the originator.
Submissions: traveller@dadla.wr.tek.com, or uunet!dadla.wr.tek.com!traveller
Administrator: traveller-request@dadla.wr.tek.com (James Perkins)
The TML is made possible by facilities provided by Tektronix, Inc.

-------- TML Message #991 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 991
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 90 13:54 EST
From: (Bob Mahoney) BOBMAH%PSC.BITNET@mitvma.mit.edu
Subject: Maybe we're going at this all wrong...


About those GENIE files:

Why can't we (as the one, the only, Traveller Mailing List) pursue some sort of
recognition from Digest Group, GDW, or both?  After all, many members of the
list have network access via job or school, and may not have dial-out access of
their own.  These folks can't just join a commercial network to have access to
these files.

What if we asked to be a semi-offical distribuition point for any electronic
goodies that the Traveller people might be willing to share?  The "History of
the Imperium Working Group" is a postal organization that is not owned by GDW
or Digest Group, and I assume that they are non-profit.  Why can't we request
access to the sort of information that (I assume) the copyright holders are
providing to HIWG?  The world-wide internet is a big place.  The TML might be
real attractive to them as an information outlet.

In return, we could certainly provide feedback and ideas on the game and the
universe, which must have some small value to GDW/DGP.

Would this be kosher, and in keeping with the TML intent?  Is it possible James?

- -Bob                                 bobmah@psc.bitnet

All opinions and material above is the responsibility of the originator.
Submissions: traveller@dadla.wr.tek.com, or uunet!dadla.wr.tek.com!traveller
Administrator: traveller-request@dadla.wr.tek.com (James Perkins)
The TML is made possible by facilities provided by Tektronix, Inc.

-------- TML Message #992 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 992
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 90 16:57:25 -0500
From: tey@sage.cc.purdue.edu


An interesting subject came up briefly in the PBEM game currently forming
up; The question of acknowledging characters with doctorates. As I recall
from my AT (Ancient Traveller :-) ), a skill of Medic-3 was the equivalent
of an MD degree, with(I think - I don't have it here) skill 4 and a good
Dex to be rated as a surgeon.

Now, assuming the same goes for other skills, some sort of comparison
can be made: Level 1 ~ Some experience/undergrad work/maybe a Bachelor's
	     Level 2 ~ Good experience/maybe a Master's or eqv.
	     Level 3-4 ~ Phd or eqv.
	     Level 4+ ~ Further professional work

and of course, Level 0 ~ "Insert tab A into slot B..." :-)

Naturally, a person doesn't _have_ to have a degree or title for these
levels of skill. After all, Edison(I believe) never even graduated high 
school. The reason this gets to be important, is that someone with an
_exceedingly_ high level in something is _bound_ to be well-known by
other people in the field. I see nothing wrong in having characters(PC
or NPC) make a 2d or 3d check against a person's skill level to see
if they recognize the person in question, with appropriate modifiers
for how 'glamorous' the person's background might be. For example, a
popular grav cycle racer with Grav Veh-5 would be easier to recognize 
than, say, a great bureaucrat with Admin-5.

Sudden cries of "Oh look, it's Motormutt! Let's go get his autograph!" can
make for some interesting random encounters(Hi Mike!).


*****************************************************************************
                                  |"And all this science, I don't understand.
  tey@sage.cc.purdue.edu(Legion)  | It's just my job, five days a week."
                                  |                     -Elton John
*****************************************************************************

All opinions and material above is the responsibility of the originator.
Submissions: traveller@dadla.wr.tek.com, or uunet!dadla.wr.tek.com!traveller
Administrator: traveller-request@dadla.wr.tek.com (James Perkins)
The TML is made possible by facilities provided by Tektronix, Inc.

-------- TML Message #993 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 993
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 90 16:32:22 -0500
From: tey@sage.cc.purdue.edu



Hey, does anyone out there have a list of Neat Stuff we could supply
our characters with for the mission? My resources here in the Great
White Northern Indiana are rather limited. Any E-mail or postings
are welcome.

Also...

HEY RICHARD!!
Did my mailing about Metlay's character get through? If not, drop me
a line asap! thanx.


*****************************************************************************
                                  |"And all this science, I don't understand.
  tey@sage.cc.purdue.edu(Legion)  | It's just my job, five days a week."
                                  |                     -Elton John
*****************************************************************************

All opinions and material above is the responsibility of the originator.
Submissions: traveller@dadla.wr.tek.com, or uunet!dadla.wr.tek.com!traveller
Administrator: traveller-request@dadla.wr.tek.com (James Perkins)
The TML is made possible by facilities provided by Tektronix, Inc.

-------- TML Message #994 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 994
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 90 17:00:44 EST
From: (Greg Givler - Product Assurance) givler@cbmvax.commodore.COM
Subject: GEnie stuff


>*| I checked last night and as long as I poke my head in the Commodore section
>*| everytime I log on there should not be a problem. Since the Downloading doesn't
>*| cost me anything, I think that I should be the logical choice to do this. If
>*| someone has any objections let me know. 
>*| 
>Does this mean you will be glombing only Commodore stuff? 

No If all goes well I will be pulling down everything and anything

>*| Also, there is some Copywritten(?) material on there, mostly the UPW listings
>*| of all the Sectors of the Imperium, so you think that it is all right to 
>*| distribute this. I mean technically whoever is running this RoundTable on
>*| GEnie, wont get any money from my downloading the info, as GEnie let's me 
>*| do this Free. So let me know what you think, I will start with the PD stuff
>*| and go from there.
>*| 
>*| 
>Maybe a post of a message to the coordinator of their roundtable is in order.
>Probably, if I read these folks correctly, they wouldn't mind it being 
>re-distributed.   But it wouldn't hurt to ask.

I will try to do just this, tonight. If not tonight then tomorrow and I will
see what they say.

Greg


All opinions and material above is the responsibility of the originator.
Submissions: traveller@dadla.wr.tek.com, or uunet!dadla.wr.tek.com!traveller
Administrator: traveller-request@dadla.wr.tek.com (James Perkins)
The TML is made possible by facilities provided by Tektronix, Inc.

-------- TML Message #995 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 995
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 90 20:45 EST
From: RWMIRA01%ULKYVX.BITNET@cornellc.cit.cornell.edu
Subject: Dem files, dem files, dem GEnie files


This message consists of three parts, all related to the GEnie situation.
First is a reply to Greg on the file format, second is a discussion about using
TML as an offical distribution point, and third an excerpt of the GEnie
contract.

*** 1 ***
>Well I tried downloading some stuff on FFW over the weekend and it was
>listed as being a binary file. Now I can't seem to figure out how to
>"un-binary" it. I will try some more stuff this week.

Greg,
  The files show signs that they use Apple's at GDW.  It was rumored to me a
while back (some of the basic programs from JTAS) that they did, this about
confirms it.  GEnie accepts two types of uploads.  The first is an ASCII 7 BIT
capture upload, the second is a 8 BIT protocol upload.  Any file, regardless of
content, uploaded with X[YZ]modem will be labled a binary file.  Next time you
are on just <L>ook at one of the files, you will see it is a readable file.

The problems that I have encountered is that when I use a protocol to download
and I have the host name file files two things happen, the GEnie file:

  TROJAN REACHES

comes out on my PC as:

  TROJAN R.EAC

(Try dealing with spaces in a file name!!!! on a PC)  Any way, the filename
indicates that they are using Apple ]['s or some other OS that allows spaces in
the filename, such as Macintosh.  Also, the files when downloaded with protocol
are CR delimited instead of CRLF or LF or what ever.  What this means, is a 6
line C program to add the LF's to the file to make Misery-DOS happy (and
conversly a clean upload to Unix).

*** 2 ***

In one of the TML messages that came through today (Sorry, but I deleted it
after reading it though I should have saved it for this reply) suggested
contacting GDW/DPG/HIWG to get them to use us as an outlet.  This has merit but
there are also some problems.  First, GDW is Bloomington IL.  I don't know
where this is, but I would guess that they are long distance to a Usenet site.
Also if they do use Apples, then getting UUCP software for them may be
difficult.  However if GEnie has a node near them, then they may be able to
Starlink or PC Pursit to somewhere.

Some of the benifits to them are:
  1) Dedicated Players/Play testers
  2) Limited yet unlimited distribution (Limited because there aren't thousands
     of us, but unlimited because any one can sign up and the distribution is
     wide)
  3) Ease of communications to out of town people.

Now we need a liason to go between GDW and TML.  We also will need some facts
about us, a marketer per se.  We need a spokesman who knows this list well and
can sell them on us.  Still if we get them, we need to have a distrubution plan
other than just mailing to everone on the list.  I recommend setting up a mail
file server (since not every one can dialup UUCP or FTP) where files and
indeices can be requested.  Volunteers?

*** 3 ***

The following is a portion of the GEnie User Agreement:


                   GEnie Services Terms and Conditions

1.GEnie Services Provided

  General Electric Company, acting through its GE Information Services
  division (the "Company"), agrees to provide you access in the United
  States to the computer services designated by Company as comprising the
  GEnie Service subject to the Terms and Conditions contained in this
  Agreement.  You agree to provide all telephone and other equipment
  necessary to gain access to the GEnie Service.

2.Access to the GEnie Service

  You are responsible for the confidentiality and the use of your User ID
  and Password, for all charges to your account, and for any violation of
  this Agreement by anyone using your account. You must immediately notify
  the Company if your User ID or Password is lost or stolen, or if you have
  reason to believe that someone has obtained unauthorized access to them.
  The Company provides other computer services to subscribers to its
  MARK III Service using the same resources and equipment as it utilizes
  in providing access to the GEnie Service.  You acknowledge that access
  may be terminated by Company in preference to the availability of
  uninterrupted, efficient and high quality computer services to MARK III
  Service clients.

3.Proprietary Rights

  All of the information, material and software available for access
  through the GEnie Service is the property of the Company or of its
  information providers.  You agree not to copy, publish, commercially
  exploit, sell, transmit or otherwise reproduce that information,
  material or software, except as may be expressly permitted by the Company
  or the information provider at the time access is made available to you,
  and then only on condition that you reproduce and include therein any
  copyright notice or other proprietary legend contained in the information,
  material or software at the time of access.  You acknowledge that any
  violation of this restriction is an infringement of copyright or other
  proprietary rights.

[4 thru 6 deleted]

7.General

  a. This Agreement will be governed by the laws of the State of Maryland.
     Any cause of action based on or arising as a result of this Agree-
     ment must be instituted within one year after the cause of action has
     first accrued or such suit shall be barred.
  b. The Company reserves the right to monitor access to the GEnie Service
     by its subscribers and to remove, at its sole discretion, without
     notice, any information, material or software which it believes to be
     unlawful or objectionable.
  c. The access to the GEnie Service permitted to you under this Agreement
     is not transferrable and is subject to any credit limits which may be
     established for your credit card or by the Company.
  d. This Agreement (including the GEnie Service Price Schedule and any
     mutually accepted Supplements) constitutes the complete and exclusive
     agreement with you regarding the GEnie Service and supersedes all
     prior communications, representations or understandings.



So you with the ability to read this (sorry, I do computereeeezzzzzzz, not
legaleeeezzzzzee) may be able to make heads or tails out of it.  But it seems
to be rather "well written".

Rob
- --
rwmira01@ulkyvx / rob@disk


All opinions and material above is the responsibility of the originator.
Submissions: traveller@dadla.wr.tek.com, or uunet!dadla.wr.tek.com!traveller
Administrator: traveller-request@dadla.wr.tek.com (James Perkins)
The TML is made possible by facilities provided by Tektronix, Inc.

-------- TML Message #996 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 996
From: (Bertil Jonell) d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: The GEnie gateway question.
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 90 9:33:45 MET DST


I personally believe that a gateway agreement with the DGP is much more
useful than with the GDW.
GDW seems to have more or less pulled out of the MegaT business to concentrate
on 2300AD, Twilight and that Jules Verne animal. 

Anyone with inside contacts who volunteers to ask?

- -- 
Bertil K K Jonell @ Chalmers University of Technology, Gothenburg
NET: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se 
VOICE: +46 31 723971 / +46 300 61004     "Don't worry,I've got Pilot-7"
SNAILMAIL: Box 154,S-43900 Onsala,SWEDEN      (Famous last words)      
"Occationally he [Dulinor] rubs people the wrong way" Emperor Strephon 066-1106

All opinions and material above is the responsibility of the originator.
Submissions: traveller@dadla.wr.tek.com, or uunet!dadla.wr.tek.com!traveller
Administrator: traveller-request@dadla.wr.tek.com (James Perkins)
The TML is made possible by facilities provided by Tektronix, Inc.

-------- TML Message #997 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 997
From: (Bertil Jonell) d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se
Subject: A Question of Degree
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 90 11:15:42 MET DST


> An interesting subject came up briefly in the PBEM game currently forming
> up; The question of acknowledging characters with doctorates. As I recall

The JTAS once published (this was during their Challenge period) a extended 
scientist generation system (ala Mercenary). In this system there were provisions
for College as well as Graduate school (both takes 4 years).

> school. The reason this gets to be important, is that someone with an
> _exceedingly_ high level in something is _bound_ to be well-known by
> other people in the field. I see nothing wrong in having characters(PC
> or NPC) make a 2d or 3d check against a person's skill level to see
> if they recognize the person in question, with appropriate modifiers
> for how 'glamorous' the person's background might be. For example, a
> popular grav cycle racer with Grav Veh-5 would be easier to recognize 
> than, say, a great bureaucrat with Admin-5.

The bureaucrat with Admin-5+ would probably be quite infamous:
"Golly! It's the Red Tape Menace of the Galaxy. Run awaaaaaay!!!" :-)

By the way, What is average level of skills in Traveller. 1? 2? 3?!
(High Guard lists 2 as "standard")

Anyone with Mathematics-4+ who can make an estimate based on the character
generation system?

And answer the essential question:
"How many sentinents with Pilot-7 is there in the Marches, statistically?" :-)

- - 
Bertil K K Jonell @ Chalmers University of Technology, Gothenburg
NET: d9bertil@dtek.chalmers.se 
VOICE: +46 31 723971 / +46 300 61004     "Don't worry,I've got Pilot-7"
SNAILMAIL: Box 154,S-43900 Onsala,SWEDEN      (Famous last words)      
"Occationally he [Dulinor] rubs people the wrong way" Emperor Strephon 066-1106

All opinions and material above is the responsibility of the originator.
Submissions: traveller@dadla.wr.tek.com, or uunet!dadla.wr.tek.com!traveller
Administrator: traveller-request@dadla.wr.tek.com (James Perkins)
The TML is made possible by facilities provided by Tektronix, Inc.

-------- TML Message #998 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 998
From: ("45252-Peter L. Berghold") wrgate.wr.tek.com!uunet.uu.net!allegra!violin!plb@tektronix.TEK.COM
Subject: Anouncement
Date: Mon, 12 Feb 90 14:01:41 EST


Operating System: HP-UX A.B7.00 U
Organization: AT&T-BL, Red Hill System Administration Group (HRSAG)
Location: HR 1F138
Phone: (201) 615-4419
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.2 PL10]

####### #          #     #####  #     #   ###
#       #         # #   #     # #     #   ###
#       #        #   #  #       #     #   ###
#####   #       #     #  #####  #######    #
#       #       #######       # #     #
#       #       #     # #     # #     #   ###
#       ####### #     #  #####  #     #   ###

At 8:01AM this morning (Feb 12, 1990) David Aaron Berghold was born
to Peter & Ellie Berghold.   Mother and child are doing as well as 
can be expected.   He was dubbed by his maternal Grandmother as 
"Just perfect....". 

Vital statistics as follows:

	Wt:  7lbs 8.75 oz.  
	LOA: 20.75 in.
	Head circumference: 14.125 in
	Chest circumference: 13in

This just in:
	UFO's have been sited in the area of Somerset county.   They have
	been verified as being Mr Berghold orbiting cloud #9.


All opinions and material above is the responsibility of the originator.
Submissions: traveller@dadla.wr.tek.com, or uunet!dadla.wr.tek.com!traveller
Administrator: traveller-request@dadla.wr.tek.com (James Perkins)
The TML is made possible by facilities provided by Tektronix, Inc.

-------- TML Message #999 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 999
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 90 13:48:30 GMT
From: (Jo Jaquinta) jaymin@maths.tcd.ie
Subject: 1,000,000 Star PBEM


ANNOUNCEMENT * ANNOUNCEMENT * ANNOUNCEMENT * ANNOUNCEMENT * ANNOUNCEMENT



               T H E   T R A V E L L E R ' S   A I D   S O C I E T Y

                             IN ASSOCIATION WITH

                         A R N E L I A   C R E D I T

                    WOULD LIKE TO ANNOUNCE THE 43RD ANNUAL

                        D E T E   --   E E R A    RACE


	THERE ARE STILL A FEW TICKETS FOR THE RACE TO BE APPLIED FOR 
	SPONSORED BY THE TRAVELLER'S AID SOCIETY, ARNELIA CREDIT AND
	A FEW LOCAL BUSINESSES.

	THE RACES CENTRES AROUND WHO CAN GET FROM DETE (10000,10000,10000)
	TO EERA (10032,10029,10024) THE FASTEST ON THE ARNELIA YEARLY
	COMMUTER TICKET. ENTRANTS WILL RECEIVE ONE COMMUTER TICKET
	VALID FROM THE DATE OF TRAVEL AND AN ARNELIA CREDIT CARD WHOSE
	LIMITS WILL BE ASSESSED INDIVIDUALLY. THE WINNER, AND CERTAIN
	RUNNERS UP, WILL BE REWARDED WITH THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE
	COST OF THE TICKET AND THE COST OF THE JOURNEY IF PAID FOR
	INDIVIDUALLY. RETURN FARE TO DETE WILL ALSO BE COVERED.

	THOSE APPLYING FOR SPONSORED TICKED MUST BE AGED 18 TO 24 AND
	PREFERENCE WILL BE GIVEN TO THOSE ATTENDING THIRD LEVEL EDUCATION
	OR WORK EXPERIENCE. CERTAIN APPLICANTS MAY RECEIVE A GRANT COVERING
	INITIAL TRANSPORTATION TO DETE. ALL APPLICANTS ARE REQUESTED TO
	SEND A FULL RESUME TO THEIR NEAREST BRANCH OF TAS AS SOON AS
	POSSIBLE IF THEY WISH TO ENSURE A PLACE.

- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------

	Well maybe not as exciting as exploring a ringworld but
	a lot less time consuming. Anyone who has tried the same stunt
	on a European Inter-Rail ticket will sympathise.

	This is mainly a one-to-one (player to ref) game but if people's
	paths cross I am sure there will be scope for interactive 
	role-playing. Being able to run the 1,000,000 star level
	one system generator is not absolutely essential but will
	be an invaluable aid.

	I don't envision the response to be so overwhelming that there
	will be a shortage a places but I would put the ceiling at
	about eight people.

	Send all enquiries to:

		jaymin@math.tcd.ie


All opinions and material above is the responsibility of the originator.
Submissions: traveller@dadla.wr.tek.com, or uunet!dadla.wr.tek.com!traveller
Administrator: traveller-request@dadla.wr.tek.com (James Perkins)
The TML is made possible by facilities provided by Tektronix, Inc.

-------- TML Message #1000 --------

Archive-Message-Number: 1000
Date: Tue, 13 Feb 90 13:05 EST
From: METLAY@vms.cis.pitt.edu
Subject: skill levels



In both the old system, where skills directly affected die rolls, 
and in the new task system, where skills and combinations of skills
have even stronger effects, it is vital to control TIGHTLY the number
and level of skills available to the character. This is done only
to a limited extent in the rules (INT+EDU=MAX), so I have deivsed 
some rules of thumb for estimating what a given level of skill or
EDU might be. These are based on estimates against the propogation
of knowledge or skill in a given population; I do not claim that
they are substantive in any way. I *do*, however, claim that in
the games I've run, they work and work well.

Level 0: The character has been familiarized with the ideas, rules, and
equipment of the skill involved. He can make estimates based on his 
limited ability, and operate devices without fear of doing something 
obviously stupid. Note that a temporary Level 0 and a permanent Level 0
require different amounts of time, to turn the skills from liquid into 
crystal memory; they do not involve different techniques or training.
EXAMPLES: Learning in an afternoon to clean, fire, and safely handle 
a pistol would convey a Handgun -0; practicing this regularly until
one no longer needed to "think" about it would make the skill permanent.
Learning to work the gears and steering wheel could give a Wheeled
Vehicle 0, unless one also required safe and legal driving.

Level 1: This is "trainee" level; the character has had formal instruction
(either supervised or not) in the skill, and has a basic set of ideas
and tools with which to work at all times; enough, in fact, so that he 
is more likely to do a difficult task successfully than someone who merely
"knows which buttons to push". EXAMPLES: Driving an auto after having
been taught, and practiced for a few months to a year. Firing a handgun
every few days for an hour or two, with an emphasis on smooth motion
and marksmanship.

Level 2: This is "`qualified" level, or "journeyman/apprentice" level,
depending on the skill type. The character is proficient at what he does,
and operates unsupervised for most tasks without difficulty; however,
he may require the advice or training of one more skilled than he when
an unusual or dangerous situation arises. EXAMPLE: An Engineer-2 would
be qualified to run the engines of a small merchant with no trouble,
but might serve under an Engineer-3 or 4 on a Navy battlecruiser.

Level 3: I view this as above the median, well above in the case of
skills that aren't normally "studied" by people at large. The Level 3
indicates a "profession," a full course ofd study and certification
that amply prepares the characters for most eventualities. Hence, a
four-year stint in med school produces Medical-3 (an MD), and a
character with any Ship skill of 3 could be hired as a watch commander
in any station.

All opinions and material above is the responsibility of the originator.
Submissions: traveller@dadla.wr.tek.com, or uunet!dadla.wr.tek.com!traveller
Administrator: traveller-request@dadla.wr.tek.com (James Perkins)
The TML is made possible by facilities provided by Tektronix, Inc.

-------- End of TML Messages --------

